Ever wondered how a successful infectious disease doctor trades his practice for animal law school? In this special origin story episode, host Dr. Johnny Lieberman shares his personal journey from medicine to advocacy, sparked by his beloved dogs and a growing awareness of animal suffering.
What happens when a life-changing bond with a dog reshapes your entire career?
In this intimate origin story episode of Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, host Dr. Johnny Lieberman opens up about his transformation from a thriving infectious disease physician in Colorado to a law student in Oregon focused on animal welfare. Drawing from over two decades in medicine, Johnny recounts how adopting his first dog, Celeste, ignited a passion for animal rights, leading him to confront issues like puppy mills, factory farming, and systemic flaws in healthcare.
From navigating personal loss and depression to volunteering against animal exploitation and rebooting his life during the COVID-19 surge, Johnny reveals the tipping points that shifted his focus to One Health, a framework connecting animal welfare, human health, and the environment. He also exposes healthcare industry pitfalls, like profit-driven decisions that deny care to high-risk patients.
Whether you're a healthcare professional, animal lover, or someone contemplating a career pivot, this episode inspires reflection on identity, compassion, and making systemic change for a better world.
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About the Show
Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health explores the intersection of animal welfare, public policy, and human health. Hosted by Dr. Johnny Lieberman, each episode invites changemakers, legal experts, and health advocates to shed light on what really impacts our communities—and what we can do about it.
About the Host
Dr. Johnny Lieberman is a physician, public health advocate, and lifelong animal lover with a passion for connecting the dots between animal welfare, human behavior, and the systems that shape our lives. With a background in both medicine and public health policy, Johnny brings a unique lens to conversations about how our treatment of animals impacts human health, the environment, and social justice.
In Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Johnny brings warmth, curiosity, and a dash of wit to tough conversations that matter. From exposing the realities of factory farming to uncovering the links between zoonotic diseases and our food systems, his goal is to empower listeners to be informed, compassionate, and engaged citizens—while still keeping it real (and sometimes bringing in puppies).
Whether he's discussing legislative loopholes or snuggling his rescue dog between recordings, Dr. Lieberman believes that creating a healthier world starts with how we treat its most vulnerable beings.
Connect with Dr. Johnny Lieberman :
Email: John@johnliebermanmd.com
[00:00:00] Why listen to me. How and why did I go from a medical doctor in Colorado to a law student in Oregon? How did I go from someone who enjoyed burgers and hotdog on the grill to someone not being interested in consuming animal flesh again? I guess you could consider this my origin story. Like many a good story.
It starts with a girl, but wait, let's go back even further. Back to Colorado in 2002 when I got my first job out of medical training, working as an infectious disease doctor for a hospital, a few years after that in 2005. I got my first dog. Her name was Celeste. She was a poorly bred, but amazingly loving and friendly, [00:01:00] golden retriever.
I worked with her, I trained her. We developed this great bond and my life would never be the same. I had never had a dog growing up. And once I had Celeste, I realized I was probably always gonna have a dog going forward. 2009 got divorced, Celeste stayed with me, and we continued to grow close, and I continue to realize the importance of.
How much a dog can add to your life and how much the dog seeks from their human. I never had experienced it before and it was something unique. All you dog lovers will know that exactly what I'm talking about. About a year after Celeste in 2010, I went into private [00:02:00] practice businesswise. What a great decision it was.
My practice grew. Anyone who's been a small business owner knows there's trade offs, and I felt that the trade offs of having my own business far outweighed the headaches associated with it. My practice thrived. I felt like I became a better doctor. Better at listening to patients, better at taking care of patients.
Practice grew and in 2014 I was able to expand. I hired another doctor to join my practice and he was fabulous. He helped my practice grow beyond what I had initially expected . Practice continued to do great. Celeste was having medical problems. As I mentioned, she was poorly bred. She had one problem going on after another.
problems including an episode of hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. For those of you who don't know hemorrhagic [00:03:00] gastroenteritis, it's a very scary disease. However, treatable. Dogs get an inflammatory process in their intestinal tract that makes 'em vomit up blood and have bloody stool.
I came home one day to find a bloody mess in my kitchen and a trail of it going out into the backyard. I took Celeste to a local veterinarian who got her treated and she recovered from that fully. It's very scary. For those of you who know what it is, you can identify, I'm sure. Growing medical problems for Celeste.
She had some neurologic event, which I got her fully worked up for. It acted like a stroke, but it wasn't a stroke. If you can imagine. I actually had her sedated to get an MRI and a spinal tap. No diagnosis was found. She partly recovered, but she had the facial droop. Similar as to what post stroke patients have.
She had problems walking. [00:04:00] She lost part of her hearing. She was approximately half deaf, and she gradually started to become blind. She had an unexplained autoimmune condition, likely contributing to her blindness. And probably making her joints inflamed. She gradually had less and less interest in walking over time.
Despite all that, her happy demeanor never left even towards the end when I was taking her to doggy physical therapy, having her go on an underwater treadmill, working hard to get that peanut butter on the front, she still loved it. However, the time came when she didn't want to eat. She couldn't control her bowels anymore and she didn't wanna walk anymore, and I knew the time was close and what was the hardest decision and the hardest time of my life, I had to decide to put Celeste down.
The date came and I helped her [00:05:00] cross over to the Rainbow Bridge. The veterinarian actually came to my home. She had a mobile service for helping, dog guardians transition their loving companions over. And while I am a man of science and don't too much believe in the supernatural, I think something happened on that day, which if someone else told it to me, I might not believe it, but.
Literally at the moment when my celeste's head flopped over and I knew she was gone. It was a sunny day at the time, and there was about 15 seconds of hail right at the moment. She passed and then it stopped and the sun came out again. And I will continue to think for this day that was heaven opening up to take my Celeste and.
After that, I went through a really rough time. I was clinically depressed for a while. The typical signs, dragging the [00:06:00] feet, no motivation, sleeping a lot, not having an appetite. I took a week off from work and even after I went back, it was still very difficult to get through the day.
Later that year in my empty house with no dog, I was considering adding a new dog to the family. I stopped by a local shelter not too far from where I worked, and was even thinking about volunteering at the time. It was then that I came across, who is now my adopt dog, Sienna. I saw her while walking past the kennels.
She called to me, I visited with her and there was no way I could leave her there. I adopted this colleague, shepherd Mix, who's been in my life since Best Dog one could ever imagine. I know I am biased for sure. I know a lot of people say [00:07:00] that about their dog, but she's been a treasure and like many dogs in shelters.
Her life before was almost certainly miserable, and so I've been able to rescue her and she's rescued me and she continues to teach me about the joys and the warmth of the human animal bond, as well as teaches about being present, like dogs in general. She lives in the moment. And for someone like me who occasionally gets into my own head.
It's something I could learn and I try to be more like my Sienna. I got involved locally and nationally as a volunteer at that time because during the process of discovering, where I might get a new dog from, I learned about puppy mills. And we've talked about them on prior episodes. Here, my listeners will recall how they are vile businesses that rely on the [00:08:00] exploitation of dogs in tightly cramped, filthy conditions to churn out puppies for the public, all hidden out of view.
That was brand new to me and I was shocked that one I didn't know about it. to learn that it was still going on, deceiving people. There was no way for me I could not do anything. So I read up more about it. I got involved locally, I advocated at the local level, at the state level, and at the federal level.
All trying to educate as well as stop the process. Learning along the way my eyes were opened beyond the horrors that our furry friends in our homes endure. I learned about trophy hunting animals and research animals in the food system, animals used in entertainment.
Animals used to make leather products like leather seats, [00:09:00] animal suffering is all around us every single day, even if we don't see it. And that was something for me that was unacceptable, that I could continue to go on and not be a part of trying to help, not being a part of trying to alleviate that animal suffering.
So there was a tipping point in my life. It was also around that time I was getting to the point where I was not enjoying my practice as much, the practice of medicine for a variety of reasons. And in 2020, the COVID surge started. I'm an infectious disease doctor, I saw many of those patients in the hospital in addition to having to see my regular patient load.
Like a Lot of doctors had to address the surge in patients and the volume and the demands and the uncertainty, which we all felt in the healthcare system. Dealing with this new disease exposed many of the [00:10:00] flaws and problems in ROP and profit-driven healthcare system.
It became more evident than ever that decisions on patient care, especially surgery were made. Not always on what's best for the patient, but really for the hospital. Bottom line, the reimbursement system, one of them called the value based purchasing is at play
and patients are often kept in the dark about. Important risks of their situation. They're not given often the information on the risk benefits of decisions such as should they leave the hospital? Should they go into the hospital? How long should they stay? Should they get a procedure, should they get a surgery?
There's an underlying theme that's not openly discussed regarding the finances of it, and that's tragic for an example. Hospitals [00:11:00] across the country are graded on outcomes for a variety of conditions. One of them being certain surgeries. They get a score based on an objective system and criteria which are used across the country, which comes out as a complication rate for surgeries.
This information is publicly available. A rational observer might speculate that. Introducing such a system where hospitals are awarded and get higher grades for providing better outcomes such as lower complication rates. One would speculate that that would drive better practice, encourage more evidence-based practices, more education for teaching all providers to provide the best care to their patients to improve outcomes the most.
The reality was something quite different. However, the [00:12:00] reality is when deciding whether a patient should have a procedure or a surgery or an intervention in order to make the numbers look better and the complication rate be lower, what was actually happening is that the highest risk patients. Is the patient's at the greatest risk of having a poor outcome and counting against your statistics and potentially having money withheld.
Those patients would often be denied the procedure or the surgery unbeknownst to the patient, of course, the patient would never be thinking that would be in the surgeon or the hospital's decision making process, but it is. So I mention that as just one example because in practice routinely I saw patients who were very sick, who needed surgery, and it's often the sickest patients who need the surgery or the procedure the most getting denied.
The less sick, the healthier, the younger. Those with fewer [00:13:00] medical problems, they would be more likely to go for surgery because their risk of having a bad outcome and having the, numbers look bad at the hospital. Are not as great. So bear that in mind if you or a family member are in a situation where you're deciding what to do in a difficult medical situation, especially if it involves a procedure.
While most providers and some healthcare systems and hospitals are ethical and do act with integrity, not all do. It's very hard to sort that out, especially when you're a patient sick or you're the family member advocating for your patient who's very sick in a difficult situation. It's Important to bear that in mind.
Do your research, ask a lot of questions, and if you're not sure, I would encourage getting a second opinion. In summary, we have a very broken healthcare system. My opinion does not [00:14:00] have momentum for changing. Workloads are up, patient volumes are up in hospitals, and reimbursement is not. It's trending down.
Not surprisingly, physicians like myself are retiring early or after graduating residency, choosing nonclinical careers. Or terminating their medical career prematurely and finding something else, which is, more satisfying of a career because more and more that's not medicine. Back to my story, after a while of volunteering in numerous organizations, including at a local shelter, getting some hands on time, helping shelter dogs.
Felt like I wasn't making as much of a difference as I would like. I started to consider was there a career going forward for me helping animals. Was there a way I could leverage my medical training, my [00:15:00] scientific mind, my small business experience and my medical career to help animals somehow going forward to do this in a professional capacity.
I spent a lot of time thinking about it. This involved tweaking, or maybe even changing a lot of my identity, which was tied to my career in medicine. Very difficult to do. I really enjoyed living where I was in Colorado Springs. I explored a lot of different options, including locally and out of state.
Fundraising, nonprofit management, animal welfare, becoming a lawyer. So many different options. Eventually, after much internal debate and still with my loving and beautiful Sienna, sold my house in 2023 and sold everything. Packed up the car, packed Sienna in, and drove to what I thought was going to be.
Very good program. Tailored [00:16:00] to educate me in this space in New England. Didn't work out for me. I was still intent on getting into this space. Kind of rebooted myself again. Left New England, drove back to Colorado. Settled in Denver while there. I started a telemedicine practice, which I did infectious diseases.
I did some expert witness consulting work, and I continue to explore my options and I expanded to virtual education online classes, which has been growing in popularity as I'm sure many know. I found the program I'm at now at. Lewis and Clark Law School, they have a master of science in legal studies, in animal law, hesitant to go down the online education pathway.
I started it and I can say I really enjoyed the material. I enjoyed [00:17:00] reading animal case law, learning about how the law works, learning more about the legislative process. I couldn't read enough. And in my mind I drew a distinction because that's how I used to be in medicine, in infectious diseases. I couldn't read enough new articles on pneumonia, on c diff, on best practices for keeping infection rates low.
I used to love reading all that, and then it shifted, it became more of a chore and. Now my interest lies heavily in reading. I can't get enough of this material. I enjoy the material and the learning process, but did not enjoy the online format. So having a telemedicine practice and remote work as an expert witness and just seeing it and myself in Denver, I decided to pack up and head out to Portland to finish my training.
So I am finishing up this [00:18:00] semester Master's in Animal Law at Lewis and Clark Law School, and it's been a long journey to get here and I know I'm not done. I've been grappling with giving up part of what I've been for so long, this identity of being a doctor. And what's been so important to me for so long, it's now shifting what I value the most has shifted how I wanna spend my time.
For me, it's helping animals. It's reducing their suffering, leveraging my skillset and knowledge that I developed, plus adding this new one that I've acquired about animal law legislation Lobbying. Going forward, and I can't predict what's happening next, and no one should claim that they can, as baseball legend Yogi Berra once said, making predictions [00:19:00] is hard, especially about the future.
So I don't know what my future holds, but I am very excited. About my next phase, my reboot, my part two, if you call it that, moving from helping patients, one patient at a time, to trying to make systemic change, to reduce animal suffering and make a difference in their lives. That can be good for everybody.
Throughout my journey, I've discovered one Health. For those of you who aren't yet familiar, it's a paradigm. it's a framework of thinking about the way we treat animals and the way we manage our environment and the health of humans are all connected. It's shortsighted to look at one without the others, and in the one health world.
I feel like I really fit there. That's where I can bring my training [00:20:00] to help animals and make a better planet really for everybody. I'm hardly the first one to think about it, but I embrace that paradigm and that's where I plan to go moving forward.
Hope you enjoyed listening to my origin story.
Episode of Puppies, pandemics, and Public Health.